S2 Ep.5 Bad at Romance, with Lang Johnson
Bad at Romance - Transcript
[KARLI] We're back.
[JAMIE] We did it. [sings] Jeffery Bezos. [regular voice] I can’t—I can't afford to pay Bo Burnham any copyrights. [Karli laughs]
[KARLI] Mmm no, cut it.
[JAMIE] Please don't do it, Bo. [Karli chuckles]
[KARLI] I know I'm always wanting to sing different songs. Eminem, ACDC, Bo Burhnam.
[JAMIE] I know, I always cut them out.
[KARLI] You're always like, No, you're not. You can't have that. Can't have that. Can we even afford to mention their names? [laughs]
[JAMIE] I think if you mention their names, that’s the only way you can. [both laugh] I just don't wanna get sued. Nobody cares. Nobody's listening to this. I mean, you guys are listening to this. But like,
[KARLI] Nobody important. That's what she's trying to say is nobody important. [Jamie laughs] She just insulted our listeners. [laughs]
[JAMIE] That is not what I was saying at all. You're just putting—you’re projecting your thoughts on me. I was just gonna say, I made sure that last season, I only ripped on people so big that there's no way they would ever hear our podcast, like Steven Spielberg. [both laugh] And if he ever hears this podcast, I would be happy to apologize in person to him. [laughs]
[KARLI] [chuckles] I offer a retraction but only in person.
[JAMIE] Yes. It'll be incredibly genuine. And not fan girly at all. [laughs]
[KARLI] Not—I will not squeal. Definitely not.
[JAMIE] I—I never. I don't do that.
[KARLI] That sound does not come forth from your, your vocal cords.
[JAMIE] Mmmm? Mmmm?
[Karli laughs]
[INTRODUCTION MUSIC PLAYS]
[JAMIE] Welcome to The Act Break, where we're talking about all things story.
[KARLI] Take a break from your creative endeavors and hang out with us.
[JAMIE] Have a little simulated human interaction.
[KARLI] Because internet friends totally count.
[INTRO MUSIC FADES]
[JAMIE] I'm really nervous. We have a guest we've never [singsong] had before. [regular voice] And she could be arriving at any moment. Ahhh.
[KARLI] Literally any moment. But it's so exciting to have to be back in the swing of things and having guests on. And just—
[JAMIE] Makin' fools of ourselves.
[KARLI] Yeah, exactly. It’s—
[JAMIE] All feels right in the world.
[KARLI] It's gonna be a good time.
[JAMIE] Aahh!
[KARLI] She's here! Welcome back, everybody. We at The Act Break strive to keep it real. And we are real bad at today's topic. So we brought in some help. And I am Karli, struggling not to sing Lady Gaga with the title of this episode right now. [Jamie chuckles]
[JAMIE] And hi, I am Jamie and I am a sci fi writer and a secret romantic. Shhhh. Robots have hearts too. [Lang chuckles]
[KARLI] Today's guest is internet friend, fellow book lover, romance writer, and all around extraordinary human, Lang Johnson.
[JAMIE] Welcome.
[LANG] Thank you for having me on.
[KARLI] Oh, thanks for coming. We're so excited to have you.
[LANG] I'm so excited.
[JAMIE] If nobody even listened to this podcast ever, it’s been worth it. Because I've been able to talk to so many people that I've known for years, but never talked face to face with. And so this is our very first [chuckles] face to face. And I'm like, I'm nervous. Hi, Lang. [laughs]
[LANG] Hi. I know I was feeling the same way. I was like, I'm so nervous to talk to them.
[KARLI] Right. But we've talked to each other for years now.
[JAMIE] Yeah.
[LANG] I know.
[KARLI] Which is such a crazy thing to think that that's just how—the internet's a weird place.
[LANG] It is. It is.
[JAMIE] I wonder if uh, what are they called—Xennials—listen to us. Talk about that every single time. The internet's so weird. And they're like, “Boomers.” Aw man, it’s crazy.
[LAUGHTER]
[KARLI] But absolutely, we’re thrilled to finally be talking to you face to face in real time. It's very exciting. We can't wait to pick your brain about today's topic because like I was joking, this is not our forte, but this is your bread and butter.
[LANG] Yes, it is. [chuckles]
[KARLI] So today, we're going to be talking about what Lang does. She is a romance writer. So we're going to pick her brain a little bit about her experience. And then we're going to dive into the topic of romance as a genre, sub-genre, some things we like, maybe some things we don't like, and just have a bit of a chit-chat about it. It's gonna be a good time.
[JAMIE] Yeah.
[LANG] I'm excited.
[JAMIE] When we were like, okay, if we're going to talk about romance, we obviously need a guest because neither of us [all laugh] are gonna be able to bring much to the table. And we both thought of you.
[KARLI] Oh yeah, we're like Lang. Lang’s the one.
[LANG] I am honored. Thank you.
[KARLI] We're so glad that you said yes. We're always nervous whenever we ask people like I don't know if they want to come on with us. We're weird.
[LANG] I've been waiting. I'm like, Oh, I hope they ask me, I hope they ask me. [chuckles]
[JAMIE] Yay.
[KARLI] That makes me so happy. All right, well, why don't we just start with a little bit of a get to know you, Lang. Can you tell us a little bit about your journey as a writer?
[LANG] Sure. So I started writing in 2016, which actually, I heard the podcast with Greta; and I forgot which one said that we all drank the Kool Aid in that year.
[JAMIE] We did. [Jamie and Karli laugh]
[LANG] Yeah. But yeah, so I mean, I was always writing as a kid growing up, like, I've always been interested and reading a lot. And my mom didn't really let me watch TV. So I have like, all the books to read. But I actually ended up working in IT for—I worked in finance for like, five years, and then IT for ten years. Because, you know, I was like, that's what I got to do to make the big bucks. It wasn't really that big of bucks. I was in the corporate world for a long time. And then I would actually like write at my desk, and then I just like shove them in my desk drawer, and like lock it. [Karli laughs] Yeah, and so. But then eventually, I met my husband, we got married, moved to California for a little bit. And I just started thinking about my career more. And one day, I just took the leap to become a writer. I mean, it wasn't just like, we talked about it a lot for like, probably almost a year until I just said, “Okay, that's it. I'm quitting corporate world, and I'm gonna start writing.” And so then I started working on my first book Of Beasts and Gods. And that was like a fantasy, like a dark fantasy romance. And then, and then it just went from there. So now I'm on this book now. This is actually technically my third book so...
[KARLI] Nice. That's awesome.
[JAMIE] It is so funny. The more people who you talk to, in our little universe of Instagram, writers that started in 2016. I think that's a really—
[KARLI] Cracks me up. [Jamie and Karli laugh]
[LANG] Like, what was going on that year? [chuckles]
[JAMIE] I know, I need to look back. What were the headlines? What, what inspired so many of us?
[KARLI] What stars were aligned that we all were just like, this is what we got to do. It's so funny. So you said this is your third book that you've been working on? And so you're, you're like, you're ready to publish.
[LANG] I am. May 12th.
[KARLI] Ahh! Okay, and so that's Devil's Breath.
[LANG] Yes.
[KARLI] Are you? Do you want to talk about that a little bit?
[LANG] Yeah, I can talk about it a little bit. It is a romantic suspense book. It's based out of New York. And basically, I'm really bad at explaining my own books.
[KARLI] That’s okay.
[LANG] So that's why I have like the book blurb.
[KARLI] You're in great company here. [Lang laughs] We're bad at explaining our own stuff too, or at least I am.
[LANG] Isn't it like the worst, you write a whole book and you don't know how to explain it? [laughs]
[JAMIE] Well, you write a whole book and they're like, explain it to me in like four sentences. And you're like, ohh, uhhh.
[LANG] Yeah.
[KARLI] You're like, I wouldn't listen. If I wanted to write micro fiction. I would write micro fiction.
[LANG] Right. [laughs]
[KARLI] But I wrote a whole novel because I can't stop writing more words.
[LANG] Right. That's why I can't do Twitter.
[LAUGHTER]
[KARLI] I always run over I'm like, ah crap. All right. So Devil's Breath, romantic suspense...
[JAMIE] With a backdrop of New York.
[LANG] With a backdrop of New York. The main character is a female assassin, also a chemist, “a brilliant chemist,” as my blurb says, and she ... so she has a family drug empire, and she's creating a new drug called Devil's Breath, which is like supposed to take over the market, but they need funds. So the person unknowingly funding their venture is this billionaire. 'Cause romance, you know, usually has to have a billionaire.
[KARLI] Gotta have a sexy billionaire.
[JAMIE] It's always more romantic when there's more money involved. Let's be real.
[JAMIE] Right, right.
[LAUGHTER]
[LANG] Right, exactly. So we have the hot billionaire with like, the chiseled body, of course. Yeah, that has to happen to. So he doesn't know. He's like, he doesn't know he's funding her venture. And her plan is to just basically like, take his money and kill him. But then you know, the lines kind of blur because she starts falling in love and what she—you know, its like a family business. So she can't betray her family. So it just kind of goes from there. And I swear it is way better than how I'm explaining it.
[LAUGHTER]
[KARLI] I believe it.
[JAMIE] I believe it as well. [Lang laughs]
[KARLI] I can't wait to read it. I'm so excited.
[LANG] Thank you.
[JAMIE] I've just recently experienced this as well. Although I think that you did a pretty good job of pitching. If you want to make yourself feel like your story's stupid. Just try and explain it to somebody real quick.
[LANG] Right!
[JAMIE] You're like that sounded so dumb. I'm sorry. [all laugh] This is how I always feel after I pitch a book. I'm like, you know, now that I say it out loud. Forget it. [Lang and Jamie laugh]
[KARLI] If I was good with my vocal words, I would be a podcaster. Oh wait.
[LAUGHTER]
[JAMIE] Pretty much.
[KARLI] We're way better on paper folks, way better on paper, we promise.
[LANG] Way better. But those are—there’s like those pitch wars that they have. I'm like, and I'm like, how did you? How do you win that? I don't know how to even do it.
[JAMIE] I tried to do it once and I had a couple of good pitches, but that is like throwing flicks of water into the ocean and hoping somebody finds it. [Karli and Lang laugh]
[KARLI] I mean, that's a good segue from talking about your book to just dive right into the topic. So...
[LANG] Okay.
[KARLI] We all know that there are levels of romance, you know, we go from the full-on this is a romance book to there's like an adventure where like the sub-plot is interwoven with the main plot, so it's still really crucial to the story. And then you've got like, oh, they happen to also fall in love, or maybe like a side character romance or something like that.
[LANG] Right.
[KARLI] So it's like, there's definite, distinctive things. In amongst that, where does Devil's Breath fall? Is that just like, it is romance? And then the other stuff is secondary? Or is it the adventure or like the suspense is first in the romance a second? Are they like, together?
[LANG] I kind of want to say it's together. It is heavy on the romance because it is focused on the two characters, and is dual point of view with her and him. But there is also a lot of action and gunfights and stuff like that.
[KARLI] So you gotta like a real inner woven thing going on?
[LANG] Yeah. Yeah.
[KARLI] Nice. That’s exciting. I'm a big fan of like, an exciting adventure, or suspenseful something going on alongside romance. Very nice. I'm even more excited to read it now.
[LANG] Oh, thank you.
[KARLI] Um, so in general, do you notice specific like, preferences in the levels of romance that you enjoy either writing or reading?
[LANG] Yes, I have preferences. I do really like enemies to lovers. That's a big one for me. What else do I like?
[KARLI] I love enemies to lovers, too. I'm a big fan of that.
[LANG] Me too. I like the forbidden love, which is kind of like what mine is because, assassin. Let me see. And I think I don't really have much. It's so weird to say because I'm like a romance person. And I'm like, I don't really have much that I like. [all laugh]
[KARLI] So are you, in that way do you mean like you're super picky, or you're really specific about what you like, or ...
[LANG] Specific.
[KARLI] Okay.
[LANG] Yeah, I'm pretty specific about what I like. Like right now there is this like really big thing in the romance community, where they do like a lot of like bully romance, and I don't judge anybody and what they read. I'm just like, personally, not a fan.
[KARLI] I've never even heard of that. Can you elaborate a little bit?
[LANG] Okay, basically, mostly the love interest of the main character is like, really mean, but it's very different from like, enemies to lovers. It's like they’re, they like bully them. Like, like--
[KARLI] Like a position of power even maybe over them in some way.
[LANG] Usually, yes. Yeah. Usually, yes. I'm not a huge fan. It's really big. I'm not a huge fan. But there are certain ones that I like, if the main character is also like, very strong and pushes back a lot, so...
[KARLI] Right. Yeah, cuz I mean, because then I feel like it gets really touchy with that, like, victim, abuse. It's just I feel like the line is so fine there that you could get in trouble real fast.
[LANG] Exactly, yeah.
[KARLI] Yeah, I could see that. I probably wouldn't be so much into that, either, so...
[JAMIE] I know that a lot of people like it. But for me, I don't usually like it when the love interest is a jerk. But they somehow fall in love anyway. And like just disregard all of their past bad actions. I'm like, but would you really? But would you? So that's, that's I agree where I'm like, that's not my preference.
[KARLI] Yeah. I mean, like, even if, if they've got flaws, and all of that, I mean, that makes them feel more real. But you want them to have something there that you could believe that they would fall in love with that person.
[LANG] Right? Yeah. And I don't mind--so like I'm reading one now. It's called the Zodiac Academy series. And it's like really, really big on BookTok.
[KARLI] I think I've heard of that.
[LANG] Yeah, it's really good is considered a bully romance with the female characters are so strong and fierce. And they they push back a lot. I think I'm on book three now and there's still no real like, falling in love or romance type thing.
[KARLI] So it's more of a slow burn situation.
[LANG] Yeah. Right. And I think it's like, I'm assuming the guy is going to change at some point.
[KARLI] So yeah, something is gonna happen.
[LANG] Yeah, has to be like a long process. [laughs]
[KARLI] Yeah, not like I flipped a switch and suddenly I'm nice now. [laughs]
[LANG] Right? Yeah, exactly.
[KARLI] A little bit more believable journey.
[LANG] Right? Right.
[KARLI] Well, speaking of like the slow burn situation, that's another preference of mine. I enjoy watching a good slow burn.
[LANG] I do love slow burns. Yes.
[JAMIE] Same. [Jamie and Lang chuckle] Other things that I really liked to get to know you portion. Like that new fluffy feeling. This is in no way a dig on my spouse [chuckles] but we've been together for eighteen years this year. So that new relationship feeling is not something I get. [all chuckle]
[LANG] Right, right?
[JAMIE] Or I pretty much know everything about him. I love him for it, but I don't get that in my everyday life. [laughs]
[LANG] Oh, yeah.
[JAMIE] Do you have other things you like Karli?
[KARLI] Oh, what types of things? I'm all over the place. But I mean, because I like fantasy and stuff. I'm super into like shifter, vampire romance, stuff like that. So that's a that's a big like of mine. But I have discovered I didn't think that I would like romance outside of that because that was really my initiation into romance was that kind of stuff. But I recently read just like some, just pure romance. That was not so pure. [all laugh] How do you—how do you even speak? See, Lang, this is why we're bad at romance is because like we can't even talk about it.
[JAMIE] Giggle, giggle, giggle. [Lang and Karli laugh]
[KARLI] Hehe. [laughing] So ridiculous. So what about you, Lang? Do you have any more like things you, things you like to see in your romance?
[LANG] Obviously, the billionaire trope because, ya know. I also like the soulmates. So usually, that's like more fantasy for me like, I don't know if you guys read Sarah Mass' stuff where they're like...
[JAMIE] I have.
[LANG] Okay, they're like mates, right? Like from like, they’re whatever, they I forgot what they're called.
[KARLI] Mated or something.
[LANG] Yeah, yeah. So that's not like, real life romance, usually, but I do like that with fantasy. I usually don't like straight romance either. There are a few like, Colleen Hoover has really good stuff, but I like more with like, action adventure or like, you know, and then the fantasy like the shifters and stuff like that.
[KARLI] Something going on on the side.
[LANG] Right.
[JAMIE] What you said reminded me like, um, like, if I think of very specific tropes I like, on the fantasy side of like, soulmates with enemies to lovers. So they're soulmates that hate each other. [chuckles]
[KARLI] Oh.
[LANG] I love that.
[KARLI] I love that.
[LANG] Oh my gosh, I like that's, that's good. And then there, there are like some taboo ones. So I'm actually part of like a Facebook group called Deliciously Dark Taboo. But I um, I am like too nervous to write taboo, because I feel like I would have to do a pen name. So maybe one day if you see a pen name that's very similar to Lang Johnson.
[LAUGHTER]
[KARLI] I like that.
[JAMIE] You're selling yourself out. I feel like it took me a while to realize that I can like romance, because my introduction to reading was so much YA. And there was so much angst and there was so much cringe that I'm like, I don't really like this. Especially 'cause I like a slow burn like a build up something you're expecting because you've built up to something. And I felt like with a lot of what I had read was like, instant—insta love.
[LANG] Yeah.
[JAMIE] Which I don't like because I'm like, you don't even know this person.
[LANG] Same.
[KARLI] Or if it is a slow burn, it’s very angsty.
[JAMIE] Yeah.
[LANG] Yeah.
[JAMIE] Or real creepy. [Lang and Karli laugh] Edward Cullen.
[KARLI] We're looking at you, Edward.
[JAMIE] There are some red flags. Okay, Bella!
[LANG] Oh my gosh, right. [chuckles]
[JAMIE] But I'm glad that like now I'm like, oh, yeah, I don't mind a romance as long as it is, like, a grown up approach to how to handle interactions with other human beings. [laughs]
[LANG] I agree. I agree. And that is actually one of my least favorites, is insta love. 'Cause then it's just over like, and then also why? [chuckles]
[KARLI] That really it's the only thing on my do not like list. Like no insta love. I'm not into it. Because then you know that they're gonna fight over something dumb later. And I mean, listen, I don't mind you know, fight and break up and get back together, fine. Like, but make it about something like actually makes sense with the plot. Then I feel like Insta love kind of lends to, in my opinion, the silly breakups.
[LANG] That's actually honestly the only thing I don't really like either.
[JAMIE] There's a weird line and I'm not even sure where I fall on this where I don't like it when people—they fight, they break up over things like if you would have just talked to each other ... none of this would have happened. But then I also really do like idiots in love trope.
[LAUGHTER]
[LANG] I've never heard that trope, but I like it.
[JAMIE] It's probably because it's mostly in fanfiction. [Jamie and Lang laugh]
[KARLI] So can you elaborate on what idiots and love means then?
[JAMIE] That's why I don't know where the line is because it is a lot of, they're having a miscommunication.
[KARLI] But it's not out of being completely um, just blatantly like not telling each other things?
[JAMIE] I guess. Yeah, I guess the line is in like the traditional rom-com, they were hiding something from each other. So then they break up, whereas idiots in love are assuming that their feelings are unrequited.
[KARLI] Oh, okay.
[LANG] Mhmmm.
[JAMIE] So it's like, I think I'm the only one who feels this way. So...
[KARLI] But they both feel that way.
[JAMIE] But they both go that way, but they assume the other one doesn't. So instead, it's, it's less of a lie or an omission of a situation or whatever, and more of like a self-confidence issue, I guess? [Lang and Jamie laugh]
[KARLI] I like that too. Because yeah, they they, I feel like that kind of gets into a little bit of like, the the best friend trope where they're in love with their best friend, but then they think that their best friend won't, won't feel that way. But then their best friend really does feel that way.
[LANG] Yeah, yeah.
[KARLI] But I don't like it when the when, the best friend, just serial dates really terrible people. And then they don't realize that they were in love with their best friend until their best friend gets a makeover or something like that.
[LANG] Oh, I don't like that.
[KARLI] Nope. No, they didn't see your worth before. Not worth it.
[LANG] Exactly. Oh, yeah. I don't like that either. They do that a lot in movies, I feel.
[KARLI] Yeah.
[JAMIE] Super common movie trope. Great.
[KARLI] Great segue to uh, lines, [Lang and Karli laugh] lines in romance.
[JAMIE] They call that a non sequitur.
[KARLI] Yes.
[LANG] Lines?
[KARLI] Yes. What are the lines that we draw between the age gap in the genre? And where does that fall with different things? Because I feel like obviously, it's so different for younger audience than it is for older audience.
[LANG] Right.
[JAMIE] This is like, this is where we could get into the weeds and get in trouble.
[KARLI] Yeah.
[JAMIE] Everything we say on The Act Break Podcast only reflects the views of the people stating them. [all chuckle] We’re not forcing anybody else to believe what we believe and we encourage you to form your own opinions.
[LANG] Yes, I like that. So I know a lot of YA is, we kind of discussed like the angsty, fade to black.
[JAMIE] Mhmm.
[KARLI] Well, and that kind of goes into that whole discussion that we had with Kim about young adult versus adult because there's such a wide range of Young Adult that it is so difficult that you know, you have twelve-year-olds reading young adult and you have eighteen-year-olds reading Young Adult, not to mention, you know, anybody older than that.
[LANG] Right.
[KARLI] Like how do you market to an audience from within the just the mentality and maturity level gap between twelve and eighteen?
[JAMIE] Yeah, I like how you said it, though, because that's kind of how I feel about young adult is like, angst, romance. But when it comes to physicality, it's like kissing making out, fade to black.
[LANG] Right.
[JAMIE] Like after fade to black, anything past that is above, above YA into New Adult, into adult. I feel like PG is like, no romance or like little crush...
[KARLI] Middle Grade is like a crush situation.
[JAMIE] Yeah.
[LANG] Right. Yeah. Because there is such that gap for Young Adult. I mean, like, this is just my opinion, but I personally feel like it should be fade to black. Just because if you are like eighteen or twenty, or, you know, forty like me, still reading Young Adult. Like, you can probably you're like, okay, it's fade to black, I don't care. But then like twelve-year-old reading a full on sex scene is different than us reading like a fade to black.
[KARLI] Absolutely. Because we can fill in the gaps. But they don't need to. Because yeah, not something that they need in their head at that age.
[LANG] Right. Right. Exactly.
[KARLI] That whole they were kind of trying to make New Adult a thing for a second there. And then they were like, yeah, too much work. Just put it into the adult section. And I do agree that like that's the better choice versus leaving it in Young Adult but I do I do think that there should be an in between.
[LANG] Yeah, yeah.
[JAMIE] At least nowadays, readers and like the community, like we label them New Adult, even if they're not creating a new niche in the market for marketing it that way, or categorizing them in that way. In release, like as a community. We're doing that.
[KARLI] Yeah, right. Right. Yeah, definitely. I mean, obviously we're talking specifically about sex in this instance, but you know, romance is more than sex. Like is there's the intimacy without the physical aspect. And so, you know, there's ways to do adult romance without going into detail. So it’s, you know, it gets it gets kind of squishy, because we talk about like, oh, well, you know, if they're, if they're sex, and it's automatically adult, and if there's not sex in it, then it's, but that's not necessarily true, either.
[LANG] Exactly. Exactly.
[KARLI] Because you can have a romantic relationship without going into detail.
[JAMIE] Or you can have a romantic relationship without having a physical relationship as well. Yes.
[KARLI] Yeah. Just like you can have a physical relationship without having a romantic relationship. [Lang and Karli chuckle]
[LANG] Right. And it goes both ways. Yeah.
[KARLI] So yeah.
[LANG] So I don't know who does the sorting and like stores like Barnes and Noble or the bookstores, but I know Jay Kristoff—I think you both know, Jay Kristoff, right?
[JAMIE] Yeah. Yeah. Personally, I talked to him yesterday.
[LAUGHTER]
[LANG] I know. He's my best friend. [all laugh] He has responded to some of my stories. So we're basically best friends.
[KARLI] Exactly. I've seen that. I was so happy for you. And because I know you're a, you're a fan.
[LANG] I love him. [all laugh] But he's so, sometimes he's like, posted stuff on Instagram, where like, people have been yelling at him. Because his books end up in the YA section. And he's like, that's not YA, I don't know why it's in there. He's like, I've never said it was YA. So I don't know who sorts these like, I always thought publishing companies like send it over and they're like, put this in Adult but apparently that's not the case, so.
[JAMIE] Yeah, that is weird, because that's what I was under the impression of as well is that the publishing house dictates in like, when they sell those and like distribute them, they usually I would assume have control over where it ends up, what ends up on an end cap, what ends up being featured. So that's strange.
[LANG] Yeah, yeah.
[JAMIE] If anybody works for Barnes and Nobles, DM us and explain. [all chuckle]
[KARLI] Well, but I feel like it's not necessarily even just Barnes and Noble. It's just bookstores in general. Like, some will categorize things properly. And some they won't. I mean, I think it's a similar problem as science fiction and fantasy, all getting mooshed to the same section. Because like, oh, it's the same thing. It's all made up. [chuckles]
[JAMIE] And I can see, especially with like, independent where, like, you're just putting them wherever, if you if there's an author who's consistently released a bunch of YA, when you open the box, throw it on the shelf, and you see the author's name, you maybe assume.
[JAMIE] Yeah.
[LANG] Right.
[KARLI] So I think I think it would behoove booksellers to take, to take a gander on the Google whenever a new book comes out just in case. [Lang chuckles] Goodreads does a decent job of tagging those things, because the readers are the ones tagging things. So and they'll usually flag stuff. Not always, but most of the time.
[JAMIE] This is a question for all of us. Even though we're not great at romance, either. But I do have like a thing to say about it. But any advice for people who are not so well versed at the romance?
[KARLI] The writing aspect, you mean?
[JAMIE] Yeah, the writing, if you're gonna try and write a relationship, or romance or any advice you have?
[KARLI] Well, I mean, I feel like with a lot of things, read what you like, what you feel like you might want to write, and start paying attention to, you know, the different moments within that and then make notes for yourself. That's what I try. And that's what I try to do, at least. Whether or not I succeed is another matter entirely. [chuckles]
[JAMIE] My advice is that you should get lots of feedback from people who read it. So I agree with you, Karli, where it's like, kind of do a case studies. Read what you what you're going for. Because that can show you like, Oh, this is how people do this. This is how they achieve these feelings in a reader. And then when you're unsure, get feedback from people who enjoy that sort of writing.
[LANG] Well, yes, there you go. [chuckles]
[KARLI] Well, I guess, how did you start writing romance? Like, what made you go this is what I want to write or was it just like a natural like, just, this is what I'm gonna do.
[LANG] And so like my first book I wanted was a fantasy book. But then the romance kind of took over on its own.
[KARLI] Okay. So just felt natural to you.
[LANG] Yeah, it just kind of felt more natural. I mean, I've always liked romance in general anyway. So I guess it just kind of flowed. But that's my first book. That wasn't actually my intent. I wasn't trying to write a romance and then it just turned into one.
[KARLI] Do you have a two cent recommendation for us today, Lang?
[LANG] For romance? My book?
[LAUGHTER]
[KARLI] Obviously, yes.
[LANG] Well, I think I already mentioned it, but I really do love the Zodiac Academy series. It's really well written. Like I said, it is kind of like a bully romance. But it's like, I love it just based on like, the female characters. And there's also a lot of like diversity in it. The fantasy world that's been created, is just, it's really good. There's like shifters and all kinds of really cool stuff. So they did a really good job. And the writing itself is really good. I was in a really big book slump, and then I pick that up and I'm back.
[JAMIE] Nice.
[KARLI] That’s awesome. And is that Young Adult or Adult?
[LANG] It's adult.
[KARLI] Okay. Well, well, now I'm really interested. Well, thank you so much for joining us Lang you are a delight to have and it's just was great to have a conversation with you and pick your brain about all of this stuff. So thank you.
[LANG] Thank you for having me. This has been fun.
[JAMIE] I was wonderful. We'll have to have you again. Yes, definitely. If you'll agree.
[LANG] Of course. Yeah, of course. [Lang and Jamie laught]
[JAMIE] We make her we make her agree to it on air.
[KARLI] Record her response. [laughs]
[JAMIE] This is legally binding.
[LANG] I would love to be back that would be great. It's so nice to actually talk to you guys like face to face so, yeah.
[KARLI] It is really nice. We just started this podcast so that we could actually start talking to all of our internet friends in real time.
[LANG] I like that.
[KARLI] Forget all the story talk and the rest of it. It was for the internet friends.
[JAMIE] Karli, stop telling people to forget our other episodes. [all laugh] You should listen to all our episodes. Every single one of them.
[LANG] Yes, absolutely.
[KARLI] All right. So Lang, you can be found on Instagram and TikTok.
[LANG] Yes.
[KARLI] @writer_langjohnson
[LANG] That is on Instagram, and then on TikTok, it's @author_langjohnson.
[KARLI] Definitely go follow Lang. Check her out. She is one of the most like encouraging and positive and like—you’re so motivating. You're always doing awesome things, and runs, and yoga, and all kinds of cool stuff.
[LANG] Thank you.
[KARLI] Lang's debut novel Devil's Breath comes out next week, May 12. Go preorder it. If you're listening to this after May 12, then just go buy it and read it, and rate it, review it. We're so excited for you, Lang. Thank you again so much for joining us. Congratulations on your debut.
[JAMIE] Yes, congratulations.
[LANG] Yeah, thank you so much. I had so much fun this was, this has been great.
[KARLI] And you can find us @theactbreak_podcast on Instagram, on Twitter @theactbreak_. If you want to sign up for our newsletter, which you definitely do because we're very cool, go to scifiohmy.com/podcast, and you can sign up for that. You can also find all of our episode transcripts there as well. Link to all the things is in the bio of our Instagram. Thanks for listening.
[JAMIE] [chuckling] Talk to you later, internet friends.