S2 Ep.4 Real Honest with Jamie Redact
Real Honest with Jamie Redact - Transcript
[KARLI] My how the tables have turned. [maniacally laughs]
[JAMIE] Oh how the turn tables. [chuckles] Indeed. Now we're here.
[KARLI] Yes we are. [Jamie chuckles]
[JAMIE] You don't have to sound so evil and satisfied.
[KARLI] I can't help it—t’s just just bubbling up inside me; I can't keep it in.
[JAMIE] This is why I don't give you a lot of power [Karli laughs] it goes straight to your head.
[KARLI] Mhmm. It really does, it really does.
[JAMIE] She can’t handle it. She goes full villain.
[KARLI] It takes just the slightest provocation. I just tip over onto the dark side.
[JAMIE] Yep. Walking that line constantly. [Karli laughs]
[KARLI] I don't look like I could be a villain. And so that's like—surprise! Ha!
[JAMIE] Yeah, you do. [laughs] She's like, it's not like I have like an undercut and I have crazy hair color and tattoos. [Karli laughs] Oh, wait!
[KARLI] Oh, so people who have undercuts and tattoos are automatically villainous?
[JAMIE] Obviously. [laughs]
[KARLI] What an assumption. Stereotyping much? [laughs]
[JAMIE] When I see you I don't instantly think of, it's not like you're like a 50’s housewife with like oven mitts and like a hoop skirt.
[KARLI] Mission accomplished. I was going for the opposite. So thanks.
[JAMIE] I'm just saying, we—we all have that potential for evil inside of us [laughs] and yours is just under the surface. [laughs]
[KARLI] It is. It really is.
[JAMIE] So close.
[INTRODUCTION MUSIC PLAYS]
[JAMIE] Welcome to The Act Break, where we're talking about all things story.
[KARLI] Take a break from your creative endeavors and hang out with us.
[JAMIE] Have a little simulated human interaction.
[KARLI] Because internet friends totally count.
[INTRO MUSIC FADES]
[KARLI] At this stage, if anybody doesn't understand the level that you commit to bits, then I don't even know what they're doing here anymore. Just saying. [laughs]
[JAMIE] It's a problem. I have a problem.
[KARLI] Spoiler alert. It's always a bit.
[JAMIE] I don't think I've said a true statement in last three years. [laughs]
[KARLI] Nope, nope.
[JAMIE] My husband is often like, “Are you done with your bit?” Or like, “Please stop.”
[LAUGHTER]
[KARLI] Are you done now? Wrap it up.
[JAMIE] I'm sorry, everybody. I'm not that sorry. But here we are.
[KARLI] Here we are, indeed. Welcome back folks to your favorite 30-ish minute podcast with your favorite non-experts where we talk all about stories, except when we don't. I'm Karli, grimdark fantasy and speculative fiction writer who is not so secretly enjoying this opportunity to torture Jamie, this delightful human I have before me. And I get the pleasure of introducing my co-host today, which is so much fun.
[JAMIE] My butt cheeks are so clenched right now.
[LAUGHTER]
[KARLI] Jamie, or Jamie React, is a science fiction and speculative fiction writer plotting president extraordinaire. As you may already know, especially if you listen to the last episode, we have been friends for quite a long while. But our relationship really took off and was strengthened by our mutual writer endeavors. In that process, getting to know her and her awesomeness more, her tenacity and wit are a constant inspiration to me. Here she is, folks. Quirky and trusty critique partner bestie, Jamie. [makes trumpet announcement sound with mouth]
[JAMIE] Thank you. I have—I have to leave now. I can't be in the same room with somebody who says nice things about me.
[KARLI] Don't get used to it. I won't be that nice to you again.
[JAMIE] I mean, keep going. [Karli laughs] Tell me more. Tell me more about that. Uh, hi.
[KARLI] Hi!
[JAMIE] It's just fair that we, we both had an episode where we are forced to do this. I was thinking it would be worse for you because I mean, [chuckles] I love talking about myself. But now that it's happening, I hate it. I hate it so much.
[LAUGHTER]
[KARLI] I hate it. I take it back. I don't like it.
[JAMIE] It's half—that’s also a bit fake humility. [Karli laughs] Add that to my repertoire.
[KARLI] Yeah, yeah, I sorry. I should have put that in there too. Next time.
[JAMIE] Yeah. Humble, but only ’cause she's pretending.
[KARLI] Yeah. So welcome to this, Get to Know You, Jamie Edition. It's like a game show.
[JAMIE] Ooo! Are there prize?
[KARLI] Yeah. When you answer all of the questions you get to be done.
[LAUGHTER]
[JAMIE] Oh. I'm in.
[KARLI] So last week, obviously, we interviewed me which was incredibly painful. But unlike me, she obviously loves, loves this whole situation.
[JAMIE] The big difference is, last week was painful for you. And this week will be painful for listeners. [both laugh] It's hard to turn down the self deprecation. I'm be serious. I'm be serious now.
[KARLI] Okay.
[JAMIE] Okay. All right.
[KARLI] So really, we're just keeping in theme with the unlikable character trope. [Jamie laughs] And we're just gonna dive right in. We're gonna start with reading stuff because you know, just ease you into it. You were kind to me, I will be kind to you. What is your favorite genre to read in, and why?
[JAMIE] I decided to take a page out of Karli's book and pick more than one.
[KARLI] Yeah!
[JAMIE] Because I have two vastly different ones. But they're both completely necessary. My handle kind of gives it away. Scifiohmy, obviously, I like to read a lot of science fiction.
[KARLI] What?!
[JAMIE] I know it's strange but true. More specifically, I veer towards science fiction set in a world we know or are mildly familiar with, with a science fiction twist. Sort of like Change Agent by Daniel Suarez, or Dark Matter by Blake Crouch. Also, Replay by Ken Grimwood. They're all set on Earth, even though some of them may be like some sort of futuristic society. There's not like a whole bunch of re-learning, like a new planet.
[KARLI] Mmm. So as opposed to like space science fiction.
[JAMIE] Yeah, I like space science fiction. But when it comes to like, my favorite things to read, science fiction that is based in a reality world with like a high concept twist. And then on the opposite spectrum of that, my favorite things to pick up are super solid, straightforward adventures. Even though I'm like, those other books are set in a world I know, usually, the concepts are very cerebral, and you have to like expand your mind to really consider them. And that leaves me feeling really tired.
[KARLI] You feel like your brain has been stretched out?
[JAMIE] Yeah, it's really I have just like a whole shelf full of books with way high concepts that I'm like, "Whoa, this is exhausting." So then I end up looking for these, like, really straightforward adventures where I have to use my brain as little as possible. [chuckles]
[KARLI] Yeah, light and fun. And just, you're there for a good time.
[JAMIE] Yes, exactly.
[KARLI] That encapsulates you in a very good way. I also really appreciate that you took the time to plug Dark Matter, we hadn't yet this season. Nice job.
[JAMIE] This is the first of many.
[KARLI] Okay, so you read a lot of older books, largely in science fiction, but you read, you just read a lot of older books. So I'm curious, what draws you to those books?
[JAMIE] I think a lot of that is me feeling like I'm playing catch up, from books I didn't read when I was younger. I felt like there was a whole bunch that people ended up reading in school as far as like the classics go. And then if I had maybe picked those up and read them, I would have followed up with some of the other ones.
[KARLI] Listen, no one I know read Vonnegut in school, okay.
[JAMIE] But when you, when you say like, oh, I want to be an adult science fiction author, there's often things people reference. And so I wanted to go back and read those books so that when people were referencing them, I knew what they were talking about. So in the last, like, three or four or five—I don't know, time's not real—I’ve ended up reading like Fahrenheit 451, Stranger in a Strange Land, Brave New World, The Forever War, Neuromancer. So, there's so many that I've caught up on and I felt like—
[KARLI] What people think of when they think of classic science fiction.
[JAMIE] Yeah, like 1984, The Left Hand of Darkness. I felt like I was not rounded enough until I had some references so that when people say things about those, I can actually know what they're talking about and not just nod my head like I know. [both laugh] And some of them, I really enjoy and some of them I'm like, yeah, this does not hold up. [Karli laughs] This is really bad. Not so great. The ones I, uh some of the ones I just listed, I'm like ehhh. [Karli laughs] If they come out now, they definitely wouldn't have one, come out [Karli laughs] or wouldn't have been, quote unquote, classics. But I still am working my way through some of the older books. I like to go back and kind of know the history of science fiction and its evolution. That's why I end up reading those. It's funny when you like type in classic science fiction, some of the stuff that comes up isn't even that old, like Douglas Adams and Kurt Vonnegut, who are both since passed away, weren’t—that was not that long ago. [chuckles]
[KARLI] Yeah.
[JAMIE] It was not long ago at all. But those are two that I do really enjoy that fall into that category of like, older science fiction.
[KARLI] Listen, you have an old soul. Your corporeal form is younger.
[JAMIE] What? Did you call my soul old?!
[KARLI] Yes, I did. It's a compliment, okay? Go with it. In your reading tastes is there anything that makes a book an instant win for you, like certain themes, tropes, plot structures, characters?
[JAMIE] I am a sucker for high concept. I am a sucker for anything that I am like, feel like I haven't seen before or anything that has a weird narrative style. Anything that's kind of like flipped. [chuckling] Doesn’t mean I always pick up winners. But it does make me intrigued. So I like, I like a weird story very much.
[KARLI] Can you share with our listeners, your reading philosophy?
[JAMIE] Yeah, I would love to do that. Because it's something I didn't know I had until I started telling Karli it. And that is that life is too short. And there are too many books I want to read, to force myself to keep reading a book I don't care about, I'm not invested in or I'm not enjoying. DNF more books. That is my philosophy. [both laugh] I know that there are some books that are like, well, you have to get to this certain point or you have to—and if you feel compelled to push yourself there, that's on you. I mean, there have been books where I am within like, the last one-third to one-fourth of the book, and I'm like, I don't even care what happens right now. If I don't care what happens and I'm this deep into the book, I should stop wasting my time.
[KARLI] That's a sad day.
[JAMIE] I will never read all the books on my TBR. So I'm not going to waste any time on something I'm not enjoying.
[KARLI] Since you telling me that, I have DNF’d more books. And I must say, after trying it, it has made my reading life a better place.
[JAMIE] See? That's great. See, I'm just help—I‘m just trying to help the world.
[KARLI] That's right. [chuckles]
[JAMIE] [chuckling] I’m a humanitarian. [Karli laughs]
[KARLI] Okay, so enough with the easy questions. Let's get to the hard stuff. Writing stuff.
[JAMIE] I have never written anything. [Karli chuckles] I'm new. I'm new to the podcast.
[KARLI] Nice try. Alright, let's start with why do you write? What is the purpose of storytelling for you personally?
[JAMIE] Ooo. Karli with the hard questions. This is what I had coming to me after last week, I guess. [heavy sigh] So as I explore my innermost feelings for this topic. [both laugh] But my writer section is when I get weird, honest, it's a good—I’m just saying it's a good thing we already told everybody that I'm never telling the truth or serious. [chuckles] So hopefully they'll keep thinking that I'm joking mostly. [Karli laughs]
[KARLI] Yeah, except that you just, you just told them, so...
[JAMIE] I'm my biggest—I’m my own problem. I like to sell myself out. It's a problem. Why I feel like I write stories is to give an experience to entertain others, I want to do it for the same reason I like to receive it. That like that feeling that sense of awe and wonder when I read, I would like to translate that and then give that experience to another person. Making somebody else laugh, cry, angry, invested, entertain new ideas, and not feel, potentially not feel so alone. In my pondering I found like that's, that's the goal of when I write to give the experience I receive. I think that's why I have been more dissatisfied over the last few years. Because my drive to have my work experienced by others, and I haven't been doing the work to get to that stage. I recently was asking myself, if I just write for myself and plan to never share it, is that enough for me? And the answer was no. If I don't plan to share my work, I don't see the point in writing. Which I know that is kind of the opposite of the message we send. But, but the whole storytelling thing is like, I want to tell somebody else a story.
[KARLI] Yeah.
[JAMIE] I could tell myself a story in my head. I don't have to write it down and edit it.
[KARLI] It's meant to be like a shared experience, storytelling.
[JAMIE] Yeah. So my, my new kind of perspective is, share or don't write. And that's my personal advice to me.
[KARLI] Yeah. I love that though. I think it's great if that's what motivates you and...
[JAMIE] [chuckles] Yeah, I definitely as I discovered that I was like this is, in some ways opposite of what a lot of people tell you. We also have an episode talking about writing for your own enjoyment, which I still believe in. But as a career, for me, the time that I am investing into this, if I don't share it with other people, I am literally wasting my time.
[KARLI] With your goal of wanting to give people an experience that you receive that all, that all tracks. You can't give it if you don't share it.
[LAUGHTER]
[JAMIE] Exactly. Yeah, so that is my goal in writing.
[KARLI] Okay, you've drafted pretty much a novel every year for the last six years? What is the biggest thing you've learned from that experience?
[JAMIE] So I think I've drafted a novel for the last three years, and then there was a gap, and then one year or two years before that. What I've learned the most is what I am capable of, and where my strengths lie. Which I feel like are in concept, outline, draft; which I know those are three very different things but when it's early days in a draft, those are the things that motivate me. I love doing concept and development. It's probably what keeps me going. I get a huge sense of satisfaction and accomplishment from that. It causes some problems later when it comes to workload and, you know, editing that. [Karli chuckles] But I think that the benefits are worth it.
[KARLI] And being on the outside looking in, I would agree that the benefit outweighs the, the workload struggle. You are so good at that. And watching you do that, like you're in your, you're in your element. And it's really fun to watch you do that.
[JAMIE] I love development. [chuckles]
[KARLI] Next question. What do you aim for when writing your stories? Is there a vibe or theme you try to encapsulate? Is it similar between your projects? Or is each one different for you?
[JAMIE] Ooo that's a hard question.
[KARLI] I only ask the hard questions.
[JAMIE] Just really getting down to the brass tacks of it. I've definitely tried to have completely different vibes and feels with a lot of my work. The overarching goal is, I want people to know when they pick up one of my books, that they are going to be entertained, and they will laugh, hopefully, out loud at multiple parts of it. I really love the humor. So I try and have that in every single one of my books. But I'm all over the place. [Karli chuckles] I create a whole vibe for each individual story. Overarching themes? I'm sure there are but I didn't go into too much depth. I looked at them. I didn't see as many overarching themes through each story. But I will say that each story has a very specific theme that within the context of the plot has probably become so nebulous that I'll be interested if anybody picks up the theme that I was thinking of when I wrote it. [both chuckle] That’s, that's the whole thing. But I do have kind of like an Easter egg for anybody who eventually, hopefully reads multiple of my books. Just like a funny line, or like a throwaway joke that I try and put in every single one of my books. And I have multiples of those, but I'm not going to say what they are. [laughs]
[KARLI] Yeah, no, you got to, like people got to hunt for those.
[JAMIE] You have to read it.
[KARLI] Alright, so um... Let's get to the inspiration and the influencing of the thing. Which authors inspire and influence you the most?
[JAMIE] I'm gonna pick a couple. I wanted to, or I want to say that most of the things that I consider inspiring, like that word in particular, are movies and film and it's rare that a book leaves me feeling that way. And that is why you hear me mention the same books over and over because those are the books that have made me feel that way. All Our Wrong Todays by Elan Mastai, Dark Matter by Blake Crouch, and then like a variety of Kurt Vonnegut stuff. And Kurt Vonnegut for narrative style, Brandon Sanderson for plot structure and work ethic, and Blake Crouch for concepts. I haven't Read Blake Crouch's earlier work because it's mostly like horror/thriller. And that's not really my genre. But his newer science fiction, adult science fiction works are superb. There's a new one coming out this year. I'm already excited. I wish I had invested more time into getting on Net Galley and actually being a productive member of Net Galley ’cause then I could maybe be reading it, but I'm not. I just have to wait like a peasant. [Karli laughs] I don't know. I don't know if people don't like peasant anymore.
[KARLI] You can say peasant.
[JAMIE] We're really worried about offending 18th century peasants. [laughs]
[KARLI] I'm just curious if—because I, I see those. I definitely see those. But I'm curious about like the, the humor side of things because you have such a great, um, like I said earlier, wit. And your humor is laced throughout everything that I've read that you write. And so I'm just curious if you have an inspiration for that.
[JAMIE] Yeah, when it comes to books series, that are more humor, like the types of humor that I like… Ironically, some of those series don't have a lot of plot. Let's be real, a lot of us love The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy. But the plot is real weak, like it's just kind of this roving adventure, which I enjoy. And then the novelization of Red Dwarf is the same way where it's super hilarious but the plot's real, real loose. In fact, I think that actually the plot is more solid in the Red Dwarf series. But that's also written by two people.
[KARLI] Yeah.
[JAMIE] When you go on to Goodreads, it says, like Grant Naylor. And that's two last names that they squished together. I really like wacky, madcap, I can't believe—it’s like, it's a sitcom. It's a situation comedy. Like, how did we get here? [Karli laughs] But we're here. That's the yeah, those kind of Douglas Adams. But more, the Red Dwarf boys.
[KARLI] I knew what your answer was going to be. But I wanted people to hear it. Because it's like, selfishly, I just want everybody to know, because I just I love, I love, I love that mashup. Because it's very you.
[JAMIE] Yeah.
[KARLI] Do you have a favorite part of your writing process? And like, maybe tell us a bit, expand on why that's your favorite thing.
[JAMIE] Yeah, like I had mentioned, a concept and development is my favorite part. But I like those parts—this is that honesty thing. I'm like, I like them, because I'm good at them. If and when I'm doing them, I feel like I'm in the zone. I feel like I'm doing what I'm meant to do. And the development portions, I like to take a concept, and then try and stretch it to its limits. Figure out from a concept, what would make this into an actual story? What would the goal of this story be? What am I trying to convey about the story? Why, like why? The theme. The theme, first comes concept, then comes theme. I have to find something and marry them together. And then the development of finding my beats and plugging plot holes. That is my favorite thing to do, is to create characters, create reasons that you're going to end up laughing because of those characters, solving problems that those characters are going to face in a way that doesn't feel contrived. [Karli chuckles] I could, if I could just do story development. I would. [both laugh] I mean, I do like drafting but if I could just like do concept, development, and outline; concept, development, and outline. Oh.
[KARLI] Good. I'll hire you to help me with mine.
[JAMIE] Yeah, I mean, I guess technically there are people who do that. But I would hate for somebody to write a book and then get credit for my idea. [laughs]
[KARLI] Yeah, totally.
[JAMIE] Unacceptable.
[KARLI] All mine.
[JAMIE] It's everything. My name.
[KARLI] Well, getting credit for something that you work hard on I—nothing wrong with that. Well, so I feel like that kind of segues a bit into the next thing that I was going to ask you is: what do you feel is the most exciting thing about being a writer?
[JAMIE] Hmm. I love this. Everybody prepare for the real talk. The most exciting thing that I think about being a writer honestly, is the potential for praise. [both laugh] Let’s be real.
[KARLI] Gettin' real honest here.
[JAMIE] Let's be real. [Karli laughs] I'm just saying what lots of people think, but never allow themselves to either say out loud or admit to themselves. It's like, the chance for someone to read my work and [laughs] recognize my genius [Karli laughs] and confirm it, are what I want. That is like a big, it's just like a confirmation. [laughs]
[KARLI] You're just saying what everybody's thinking and not brave enough to say.
[JAMIE] I feel like that that's kind of an overarching theme of people who become comedians. And since I am not quite skilled enough to be a comedian, I feel like that is a trait that I've taken on where it's like they, they do need praise to live, they're a little bit like Tinkerbell. [Karli laughs] And they, they are seeking a validation from outside sources, which is not always healthy. [chuckles]
[KARLI] Praise is your fairy dust.
[JAMIE] But it is a factor. [both laugh] Like, you can’t—like, I listened to a lot of Conan O'Brien. And I mean, I've heard so many comedians talk about this in interviews, how they were, you know, kind of weird kids, acting out, trying to get a laugh; but it's because they want to make other people laugh, and they want to know that they are the reason that they did that. And I think that that's one of the most exciting things for me about the potential for sharing my work is for people to enjoy it, and then tell me they enjoy it or to, you know, to state that it was good. And that's, that's one of the reasons why it can be hard to handle negative feedback for, for some. Luckily, I, I feel like I'm pretty good at taking negative feedback, mostly ’cause I very specifically seek out people who are giving me feedback to make me better.
[KARLI] Yeah, the constructive criticism.
[JAMIE] Yeah, I trust that. It's not just people tearing into you, which you will have once you go out and produce, you know, give your work to the widespread world. That is going to happen. But, but as far as excitement goes, I'm excited for people to like my work. [laughs]
[KARLI] Yeah, that's awesome. And now for the lightning bonus round. What do you like writing the most? Is it like fight scenes? You like the smooshy romance? [Jamie laughs]
[JAMIE] I think that what I enjoy the most are conversations. Bonus if they are awkward or uncomfortable, funny, and filled with snark. I love having people talk to each other because I try and get them as close to how actual people talk to each other as possible. And it's, it feels very low pressure to me for some reason. So I found that, I find that the most enjoyable.
[KARLI] Yeah. And you live for the snark, so it's very satisfying to read snarky characters.
[JAMIE] For sure.
[KARLI] Well, thank you so much for being here today, Jamie and allowing me to crack open that robot brain and see where all the wires are hooked up. [Jamie laughs] Appreciate it.
[JAMIE] Yeah, no problem.
[KARLI] So do you have a recommendation for us today?
[JAMIE] I do. The Two Cent Recommendation this week, is Living With Yourself on Netflix. It's a comedy drama, eight episode series, starring Paul Rudd from 2019. I don't want to give you too many details. Because it's kind of fun to go in blind, but it's about a guy who's sick of his life, who takes a life changing trip to the spa. And he walks out a changed man, and then madness ensues, and his life kind of explodes. Uh, it’s Paul Rudd. So do you really need more information? [chuckles] He’s this year's Sexiest Man Alive, after all. [laughs]
[KARLI] I love that for him. I really enjoyed that show as well. So I, I approve this message.
[JAMIE] See, all that power, straight to the head. [Karli laughs]
[KARLI] Thanks as always for listening, unless this is your first time in which case, welcome to the madness. Transcripts are available on all of this season’s podcast episodes, and they will be slowly releasing as I'm able to crank them out on season one. You can find everything else you may need via the links on our Instagram @theactbreak_podcast or you can go to scifiohmy.com and click on podcast. Please like, and follow, and review us because, well, it's not really hard to move your thumb over like an inch or so, you know? Like, unless you're driving, in which case, you have a pass. So you know, be safe, ten and two, eyes on the road. We'll be back next week.
[JAMIE] Talk to you later, internet friends.